This is technically the third Union x Nike Dunk collaboration. Each time, the Dunk has occupied a very different place in the culture. What were you trying to say in 2022, and how has your approach changed now?

One of my inspirations for this project was that the Dunk has been my favorite Nike shoe since the late ’80s or early ’90s. What I pitched to Nike was that the Dunk, especially when you think about the genesis of streetwear culture, was kind of the anti-hype shoe. It was a counterculture shoe. When I think about my relationship with the Dunk, it goes back to the prehistory of streetwear, when young creatives weren’t thinking this thing was going to explode. It was our counterculture shoe, while the Air Force 1 was the overculture shoe. The Dunk was the juxtaposition to the Air Force 1.

I don’t think it was ever meant to be so hyped. It just took off, and who could stop it?

By 2022, I think we were at what I can now call the critical mass of Dunk hype, and really of sneaker culture as a whole. Unfortunately, because of its popularity, the Dunk came to represent that.

People talk about the shoe going from overrated to overhated. I’d say the Dunk can’t really be overrated, but it was over-indexed and over-consumed, maybe even overavailable to a consumer who didn’t appreciate what it stood for and simply adopted it because of the hype.

I think about the influencers who went to the U.S. Open and how that whole thing blew up. Influencers were there to do what they do, but I don’t think the tennis association understood that it wasn’t the right fit. Maybe in 2023 and 2024, the Dunk’s popularity wasn’t with the right consumer. It was just the wrong fit.

I still think it’s an amazing design and an amazing shoe. When Nike gave me the opportunity to work on a project, I chose the Dunk. They didn’t come to me and say, “We want you to put energy back into the Dunk.” I said, “I want to try to do something to bring the Dunk back to its rightful place.” Not overhyped, not overhated, but just right. Goldilocks. Not too hot, not too cold.

Your AJ1 pack earlier this year landed on a model a lot of people had written off as overexposed, and plenty called it the best Jordan 1 in years. What did that project teach you about reviving a shoe people are tired of, and how much of that carried over here?

That’s a good question. As you can probably tell, I’m a Gen Xer, and there’s a canon of shoes that we grew up on and still love. As we pivot to Gen Z and their moment, there’s some pushback. You hear the anti-dad-shoe sentiment, and I get it.

I’m guilty of loving the AJ1 and the Dunk. They’re very similar silhouettes, and I think they’re indelible designs, classics for all time. Whether they’re overhyped or underhyped, they’re just classic shoes. Maybe we’re living through a moment when they’re not being properly appreciated, and I hope to bring that appreciation back.

But honestly, I didn’t compare the two projects in that way. From a design standpoint, they’re obviously similar shoes, and they’re both going through a period of being maybe overhyped. But I never really thought about it that way. I just like both shoes.

You’re a Dunk fan first. Walk me through your personal history with the shoe: when it meant the most to you, and when you felt furthest from it.

The Dunk has been my favorite Nike shoe since the late ’80s or early ’90s. My introduction to it was probably around 1995 or 1996. You could walk into any Foot Locker and buy a pair on sale for $32. At the time, I couldn’t afford the full retail price, so it became my uniform and my favorite shoe.

Maybe that never happens if it isn’t on sale, because I probably couldn’t have afforded it back then.

For a whole generation, the Dunk basically means the “Panda,” and for some of them it’s a joke or a meme. If a kid tells you the “Panda” is the worst sneaker ever made, what part of the story are they missing?

I think about how I’ve learned about Union, worked there as an employee, and eventually become its owner and creative director. Union has always been a place for people to dress themselves.

I think the pushback against the “Panda” Dunk, or against something being overhyped, comes from a place where people aren’t dressing themselves. They’re following a fad. Fads come and go. Trends come and go. Dress yourself.

If you don’t want to wear the “Panda” Dunk, there are a gazillion other options out there. I’m just choosing not to let whatever happened with the “Panda,” or whatever the wider consumer thinks about it, take away my favorite shoe.

I tried to make something I thought was wearable every day. Part of the idea behind making this a mule was to appeal to the kid who wants something super comfortable, super cozy, super easy, and not crazy hyped.

We went with some really easy, muted colors. There’s an exotic cheetah print, but there are two other colorways, too. Even the cheetah print was done with taste. It’s not pink and yellow or something like that.

I just don’t like the idea that someone whose sensibilities don’t align with mine happens to like something I like, and suddenly they’ve ruined it for everyone. So I’m being rebellious and trying to take my stuff back.

A lot of sneaker fans follow the business side almost as closely as the product. When a shoe hits markdowns, they read it as a loss of value or even a failure. But nobody’s mad about paying less. Where do you land on that tension?

I’m conflicted. At the end of the day, I’m a creative, a fan, and a member of the community. Through that lens, affordable product is a good thing. Creativity and people thinking outside the box are things I champion.

But as a business owner, it’s hard when a lot of the things you’re selling go on sale or can’t sell at full price. That’s not scalable. I can’t stay in business if all I’m doing is selling things at a discount. So where do those two perspectives meet?

My hope is that, as a curator, we’re doing a better job of bringing in product that doesn’t get discounted. I’d like to think Union is democratic, even though we sometimes get a bad rap for being too expensive. You can come in and get an affordable T-shirt, a $2,000 jacket, or something in between.

One of the things I’m most proud of with Union is our value proposition. With this capsule collection, I guarantee that when someone touches, feels, and tries on the apparel, they’ll understand they’re getting great value. The attention to detail and quality have been poured into it. Because we teamed up with Nike, we could produce it at a scale that allowed us to keep the price favorable.

The same goes for the Dunk, to a lesser degree. It’s $130, compared with the apparel, which was $210 or whatever.

I’m conflicted, but ultimately, I think it’s on us to make good-quality products that people want and are willing to pay full price for. Nobody ever wants to pay full price. Everybody wants a discount. But we need to produce the right amount so we’re not flooding the market with something people don’t want.

I’ll share that we’ve made far fewer of these shoes than we have in other Nike collaborations. I hope that’s us being responsible and meeting demand where it exists, rather than flooding the market.

As for sales, I don’t know. I might get in trouble for saying this, but my introduction to the Dunk was around 1995 or 1996, when you could walk into any Foot Locker and buy a pair for $32. At the time, I couldn’t afford full price, and that shoe became my uniform and my favorite. Maybe that never happens if it isn’t on sale. Everything has its cycle. Maybe it’s a means to an end.

Dunks are sitting on sale racks again, just like in the ’90s. Back then it was obscurity; now it’s overexposure. Is there room for that kind of rediscovery, or does the Dunk need more time out of the spotlight first?

I do think things move in cycles. I’ve lived through a couple of fashion cycles, especially when it comes to sneakers.

When I was first getting into this conversation, there was a time when belts were on sale. Then, around 2005 or 2006, boots were in and sneakers were out. We were moving Visvim and Goodyear-welted boots, and people weren’t really checking for sneakers like that. Everything goes through a cycle.

I’m not suggesting I’d be happy if these shoes were discounted, but I do think those moments sharpen your tools. This is my livelihood. If we can survive a downturn, it makes me better and stronger.

I’ve been in this industry since 1996, so I’ve survived a lot of cycles, and I think I come out better for it. Even when something you’ve made doesn’t work, and it sucks at the time, you learn from it. I’ve poured those lessons into the design, marketing, and release of this shoe, hoping to correct some of the mistakes I’ve made in the past.

I’m here for it, though. I’m not tone-deaf or blind to what’s happening in the market. I know we’re in a downturn, and we haven’t rebounded yet. This shoe is coming out at a tough time for the sneaker market, and the Dunk is the poster child for overhype and overexposure. I get that.

I’ve tried to redesign it in a way that combats that, but I understand the degree of difficulty. I’m blessed to have the opportunity to try. I really hope it’s successful. I’m a fan. I love this shoe, and I’ve been wearing it pretty much since I made it. We’ve only just started seeding it and getting it out there, but the people I’ve shared it with have been really happy with it. I think we’ve done enough differently to make it something people will appreciate.

This is one of the most understated packs you’ve put out. Given where the Dunk is right now, was going quiet a deliberate way to ease people back in, or was that simply where your head was at?

Absolutely. Looking at what’s happened in the industry, there are different ways to interpret it, but one is that the current era feels like a rebellion against hype. Things got too hyped, and I’ll admit I was probably part of that pollution. I was also a consumer who was into hype.

At some point, I remember looking around and thinking, “This is too hyped. There’s too much craziness going on. I don’t want to stand in line for sneakers. I don’t like that the only way you’re going to get something from us is through resale because you can’t get it at retail.”

To whatever extent it matters, we’ve done everything within our power to mitigate that. Here in LA, where Union is based, we do local raffles where pretty much everyone who shows up gets a chance. We can’t do that in every city because we don’t have the resources to be everywhere. We don’t exist in New York, Houston, Idaho, or wherever else. But we’ve done what we can on our home turf.

I’ve tried to walk a thin line by making a sophisticated, understated collection that meets demand without exceeding it.

I think we’ve done a good job. With the design, the intention, the marketing, and everything we’re putting into this, I think we’ve landed in that just-right spot. The collection has value, the design stands out, and the attention to detail and quality are easy to discern.

I think we’re making a fair amount of product. We haven’t overproduced and flooded the market, but we also haven’t made so little that people have to stand in line and wait. We’re trying to get away from that.

I think this collection is meant to be a reset in every way, both aesthetically and in how we approach supply and demand, rather than manipulating that relationship to suit our own devices.

The Union x Nike Dunk Low “Natural Selection” pack releases November 6, 2026. The “Hide” colorway is exclusive to Union, while “Eclipse” will be available exclusively at NBHD retailers. The “Fatigue” will release via Nike SNKRS and a wider selection of retailers.